Mary Carse | Data Storytelling in Marketing

[anna]: thank you for tuning into the real intelligence [katia_sausys]: yeah [anna]: podcast you're on today with cats [katia_sausys]: yeah [anna]: ouses s v p of business intelligence at r x and anna shots marketing co [anna]: ordinator at r x our guests today is [katia_sausys]: yeah [anna]: mary cars the marketing strategy [katia_sausys]: yeah [anna]: and planning lead with an h p marketing organization she s responsible for driving brand [anna]: and initiative [katia_sausys]: oh [anna]: portfolio strategy [katia_sausys]: oh [anna]: for h p's commercial ersonal computer marketing mary is a season results oriented marketer who [anna]: has held senior positions [katia_sausys]: oh [anna]: at a variety of agencies and brands across the globe [katia_sausys]: oh [anna]: during her over thirty year career her experience covers both be to c and b [katia_sausys]: h [anna]: to be marketing strategy planning and implementation welcome to the show mary [katia_sausys]: h [mary]: thanks [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: very much for that introduction anna and [anna]: we [mary]: welcome to everyone who is listening so yeah it's been it's a great pleasure to [mary]: be talking with kate old friend of and who we've reconnected [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: very recently so good to see [katia_sausys]: likewise [mary]: you cater to congratulations on your new role [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: and that's the beauty of having been [katia_sausys]: a [mary]: around the marketing and advertising world for as long as i have you [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: get to keep on bumping into old friends and old faces [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: that you haven't seen in a long time so i've been working in this industry [mary]: since [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: way back [anna]: oh [mary]: in the eighties so initially when i first started out in the in the advertising [mary]: world i was working for a small agency [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: and they were a branding agency [katia_sausys]: yeah ah [mary]: so a lot of what we did was you know big brand big production [katia_sausys]: ah [mary]: about kind of really brand perceptions and story telling and to be honest there wasn't [mary]: that much data associated with that we did a lot of resear market [katia_sausys]: it [mary]: research in those days but there wasn't [anna]: yes [mary]: a lot of data being captured [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: around you know how the campaigns were actually working it was more around gut feel [mary]: how well the agency could sell the idea into the client rather than any data [mary]: substantiation so when i look back at the [katia_sausys]: ah [mary]: evolution of of [katia_sausys]: a [mary]: my career in marketing it's amazing [katia_sausys]: m [mary]: now it's kind of gone from that initial situation to now where we [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: sit today where you know data is everywhere you're drowning in it it's [katia_sausys]: ye [mary]: wonderful but we still have some the same challenges you know how do we wage [mary]: through the day to cut through the noise and actually understand what's working what isn't [mary]: and do that in a way that doesn't stifle crew ativity [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: because at the end of the day [katia_sausys]: yet [mary]: we humans [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: respond to emotion and i know some of the challenges with data s people think [mary]: that it's all kind [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: of very formulaic and the account and [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: take over the world [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: isn't necessarily the case um [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: so lots of experience around that in fact one of those stories i i kind [mary]: of think mentioned to anna and katie earlier on was in one of my early [mary]: days it was [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: when i was at f c b direct you know we went to their incredible [mary]: data center yes there was a data center and this has been in the late [mary]: eighties and it was based in paris and it was this incredible underground [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: room that was probably the size of a large warehouse and [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: it was all air conditioned and you had very careful about going into the room [mary]: and all you could see was this bank of computers big computers at that time [mary]: and it was like wearing take i mean i'm that old so i've gone from [mary]: paper tape [katia_sausys]: ah [mary]: to now everything being available in the cloud digitized and an act [katia_sausys]: ah [mary]: your finger tips so it's it's been an interesting journey and a really fun journey [mary]: i wouldn't [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: have changed it for the world that's for sure so that's kind of really where [mary]: i've come from from a careerist active but what was what's been interesting for me [mary]: bearing [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: in mind where i started in terms of as i mentioned you know not really [mary]: focusing that much on data of substantiating what we did the topic of [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: data has become much more important [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: to me over time [katia_sausys]: ah [mary]: and initially i'll admit i was very intimidated [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: by data and you know the data based jargon that goes around it and particularly [mary]: early on as i transitioned from brand into more of a direct marketing rollway you [mary]: know data was much more front and center of everything i remember [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: be given these computer sheet read out it was on computer paper which is a [mary]: bit of an ox more on when think about it how can computer have a [mary]: paper but anyway it was printed paper and it would literally come in a big [mary]: stack of books and this was the result [katia_sausys]: ah [mary]: and there was it was like oh my god this is a different language how [mary]: do [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: i interpret this how can i read [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: it and it's all figures and i wasn't very good at figures at school anyway [mary]: i didn't really like math or anything like that so this was just like very [mary]: over well ing and very [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: intimidating [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: but then i didn't let that intimidation stop me i've always been a very curious [mary]: person so i started to kind of just ask myself well what are some of [mary]: the questions like to answer and slowly but surely i then began to realize that [mary]: all data is [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: data [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: is helping me answer the key [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: questions i need to answer in order to do job [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: and that's [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: really kind of so i boiled it back down to what i felt comfortable with [mary]: and i remember telling somebody a few years later another agency when they were as [mary]: cast chastising me for coming up with all this data substantiation for what they should [mary]: be doing and as i was doing a creative brief they turned round and and [mary]: said you know but mary you know you're in you inhibit creativity [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: and i said no i don't [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: i use data like a like a copy writer uses words and i build my [mary]: story around what the data is telling me i don't i don't get mused by [mary]: the data and i question [katia_sausys]: yes [mary]: continually question the data so i'm not willing to accept the data till i'm really [mary]: confident about you know its value and whether it really is telling me what i [mary]: think it's telling me and in that way i hope because i'm still around so [mary]: i've been doing something right i've been able to help bridge that gap between raw [mary]: data [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: and then interpreting that in a way that can drive success and help us in [mary]: the marketing and advertising world to understand [katia_sausys]: we [mary]: as i say what is working what it isn't what isn't what should we find [mary]: tune you know the guidance on on where we should go to do a more [mary]: efficient and effective job [anna]: oh [mary]: so that's that's kind of where i come from any any questions cadi [katia_sausys]: now [anna]: yes [katia_sausys]: you're definitely uniquely qualified to discuss the topic of women in data [anna]: right [mary]: oh yeah one other thing i've been around the world as well so as you [mary]: can probably tell from my accent i'm originally from england [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: but i've lived in singapore and around south east asia for i spent some time [mary]: in australia moved to the states about twenty years ago [katia_sausys]: h [mary]: started [katia_sausys]: h [mary]: in dallas and then moved to now i live just [anna]: oh [mary]: out side san francisco so global view as well which has been ally [anna]: yeah [mary]: useful for me because i think spending time over seas not just in [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: a vacational mode really helps you kind of understand a little bit more about culture [katia_sausys]: perspectives [mary]: and dynamics um and yeah perspective and trying to be empathetic about the dynamics [anna]: yeah [mary]: that happen in a market place can be very different [katia_sausys]: definitely [mary]: you know across the different parts of the [katia_sausys]: definitely [mary]: world so oh [anna]: absolutely in having those different perspectives is [katia_sausys]: oh [anna]: really important just given [mary]: oh [katia_sausys]: yeah [anna]: that you know a lot of [katia_sausys]: yeah [anna]: you know what happens in the data world is influenced [katia_sausys]: yeah [anna]: by the person that visualize it that is telling that story so being able to [anna]: have all those perspectives really allows you to tell a complete story so i think [anna]: that's really interesting [katia_sausys]: oh [anna]: um [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: yah [anna]: so kind of to start us off with a few of our questions [katia_sausys]: oh [anna]: we like to kind of get to know the real u um so i have [anna]: a [katia_sausys]: yeah [anna]: few questions [mary]: oh [anna]: that we might not find the [mary]: ah [anna]: answer to you in your profs in a vio um and kind of in [mary]: m [anna]: the in the bio that you gave us [mary]: i [anna]: earlier [katia_sausys]: m [anna]: can you tell [katia_sausys]: yeah [anna]: us an interesting [katia_sausys]: yeah [anna]: fact about yourself that might not be on the internet [mary]: yeah [anna]: yes [mary]: i think one of the most interesting [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: fact that you know i will admit to but don't [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: necessary document we put it that way is that when i was in my late [mary]: twenties [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: i had a pretty good start with my career working with a couple of agencies [mary]: but ever since i was a student i loved travel and i was very fortunate [mary]: when i was at college my second year i managed to get on an exchange [mary]: program so i went to australia and i spent some time [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: working in sydney and then went travelling afterwards [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: and that didn't scratch the itch so you know what late twenties it was like [mary]: i still need to travel i still haven't seen enough of the world so in [mary]: those days it wasn't about tapping on a keyboard i had to pick up a [mary]: phone and ring around a few travel agents i gave myself a goal which is [mary]: what i tend to do when i'm going to do [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: silly things [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: if i could find around a world the world ticket for under a certain amount [mary]: of money i would buy it and then i would face the consequences [katia_sausys]: yah [mary]: afterwards and five phone calls later [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: or probably that time i'd bought the ticket i'd written my resignation letter handing my [mary]: resignation [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: i was one thing trying to explain [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: to my parents why i was throwing in a good job in london [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: just [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: you know brought in a new so they was like throwing [katia_sausys]: oh [anna]: uh [mary]: your life away yeah i knew i could prove them wrong they they were convinced [mary]: i would never find another decent [anna]: ah [katia_sausys]: i [mary]: job if i went traveling [katia_sausys]: eh [mary]: around the world i challenged them to that continued [katia_sausys]: eh [mary]: along my my path had a fantastic year away learned [katia_sausys]: my [mary]: so much about myself and i did [katia_sausys]: ah [mary]: this all on my own so [katia_sausys]: may [mary]: i wasn't going with a group of friends or anything this was just me i [mary]: just literal got on an aircraft [anna]: yeah [mary]: and pointed west [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: and kept on going west so spend a lot of time in the states and [mary]: canada and why then back into australia and then background [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: and i did learn a lot not just about myself but about other people other [mary]: cultures because it's very it's very interesting when you're travelling on your own you have [mary]: two options you can literally hole up you know at night [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: in wherever you're staying and just be this little you know [anna]: oh [katia_sausys]: yah [mary]: hermit or you can [anna]: yeah [mary]: go [katia_sausys]: yah [mary]: out and start meeting people but the other thing is as a as a lone [mary]: traveler people come to you and i remember very distinctly i was on a gray [mary]: hand bus and i [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: just got talking to family behin me the next thing i know they're inviting me [mary]: to their home for barbecue and i ended up you know seeing them for a [mary]: couple of days during my visit they introduced me to friends and so it goes [mary]: on so i always say to [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: anyone travel does broaden the mind and i don't think i would be where i [mary]: am today if i hadn't gone travelling so [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: much to my parents sugar in as i said when i came back and back [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: into a working mode even they later on did admit [anna]: yeah [mary]: actually that was a really good [katia_sausys]: okay [mary]: thing you did mary you know so [anna]: so you got your goal you you showed [katia_sausys]: yeah [anna]: them that you knew what [mary]: got [anna]: you were [mary]: my goal [anna]: up to [mary]: well it also helped me i think because i was getting in a little bit [mary]: of a you know [katia_sausys]: m [mary]: right in my current [katia_sausys]: m [mary]: in the current [anna]: hm [mary]: role and it gave me enough unity to just break away completely now move right [mary]: away from everything that i knew and really think hard as i was travelling and [mary]: enjoying myself but thinking about well what do i read and to do what's going [mary]: to make me happy [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: when i got back it was yeah i really do enjoy what i do in [mary]: the marketing advertising space so but i just want to do it with a slightly [mary]: different spin on it and approach so i was very open to new ideas so [mary]: when i came back i got the opportunity to start up with a small start [katia_sausys]: m [mary]: up agency and that was fun as well so [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: i don't think i would have well i know i wil and to entertained that [mary]: having come from a big successful agency to go to a start up you know [mary]: at that stage was not necessarily the right move for me at that time with [mary]: with the evercstravel definitely definitely [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: helped me [anna]: wonderful that's that's a really cool story um given all of your travels and everywhere [anna]: you've been if you could choose to just live anywhere in the world not tied [anna]: down by a job or anything like that where would you choose to be [katia_sausys]: m [mary]: honestly [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: i'm exactly [anna]: oh [mary]: where i want to be i spent you know [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: when i came to san francisco which is now where i live just outside san [mary]: francisco i fell in love with a city [anna]: yes [katia_sausys]: ah [mary]: straighter a m and that was thirty years [anna]: oh [mary]: ago i guess now i'm still in love with the city despite all its problems [mary]: that you know are widely [anna]: oh [mary]: written about in press it's to me it's the best place to be i have [mary]: this wonderful combination of a great city vibrant [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: community beautiful nature um so although sometimes i would say oh yeah i'd love to [mary]: be i visited the old eve [anna]: cool out [mary]: last year like oh i'd love to go back to the maldives and be [anna]: uh [mary]: sitting on a beach and you know [anna]: h [mary]: being somewhere else on an island but i think long term you now i don't [mary]: intend to move from [anna]: wonderful [mary]: here [katia_sausys]: it's [anna]: that's [katia_sausys]: also [anna]: great [katia_sausys]: a you're definitely a good story teller and story and story [anna]: oh [mary]: yeah [katia_sausys]: telling is a skill in in strategy [mary]: oh [katia_sausys]: and in dataanalytics what what do you think makes a good story teller [mary]: i think it's about listening to people to begin with because in [katia_sausys]: m [mary]: order to get your story across [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: you need to resonate well with the person you're talking to so having empathy [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: for their situation and empathy for their [katia_sausys]: m [mary]: point of view [katia_sausys]: m [mary]: and i think that's part of the interesting thing that we do a lot of [mary]: the time and strategy we're providing [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: guidance to people who may not necessarily [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: think that they need [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: our guidance let's be honest and [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: so helping to understand their situation and then to be able to [katia_sausys]: ah [mary]: clearly explain to them how the strategy does fit with what they're looking for and [mary]: it's not necessarily [katia_sausys]: hm [mary]: set in stone and i think that's the other thing is being able to illustrate [mary]: how there's flexibility and modularity and everything that you do you know data [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: data can often [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: seem to be black and white but really it isn't it's very gray so that's [katia_sausys]: okay [mary]: on i guess as well i'm just i come [katia_sausys]: ah [mary]: from a background my father [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: was a writer and prior to that my my grandmother [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: and grandfather was an opera singer [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: and a lyricist so i guess it's in my d n a a little bit [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: but i would say as i say listen to people absorb take in be open [mary]: minded come in with a point of view but also park your ego at [katia_sausys]: m [mary]: the door and be to listen to other people's point of view so you can [mary]: weave that in to to what you're [katia_sausys]: thank [mary]: communicating [katia_sausys]: you very well [mary]: as well [katia_sausys]: said and you have a long [mary]: ye [katia_sausys]: career [mary]: yeah [katia_sausys]: so definitely [mary]: don't remind me look at the look at the gray hairs i mean you know [katia_sausys]: how about young women who are just starting their career in data what kind of [katia_sausys]: career advice would you give [mary]: yeah [katia_sausys]: one of them [mary]: i think this is a great time to be a woman in data [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: apologies to all male listeners to this podcast but i do feel that [anna]: yeah [mary]: historically data has been [anna]: m [mary]: a [katia_sausys]: hm [mary]: very male dominated world certainly it was in the in the eighties and ninety is [mary]: and the data geeks on the male side are great as are the women but [mary]: i think there was a challenge in again the data interpretation and i feel as [mary]: though the more i look now around me where i am now [katia_sausys]: ah [mary]: a h p [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: at friends and colleagues in other companies and agencies there's so many women now in [mary]: the [katia_sausys]: h [mary]: data field because i think we do do a really good job of being able [mary]: to take raw data and bring it together consoled at it and build that story [mary]: so that we do [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: resonate better [katia_sausys]: right [mary]: with the people that were trying to [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: sell in a proposition or explain you know that the last quarters active activities [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: i think we we are able to flow that much in many respects in a [mary]: better way because i think there is a female empathetic gen that is in in [mary]: our [katia_sausys]: that's [mary]: d [katia_sausys]: right [mary]: n a so sorry i'm sure i'm going to get a [katia_sausys]: let's [anna]: oh [mary]: lot [katia_sausys]: see [mary]: of push [anna]: um [mary]: back on that from from our male [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: friends but the fact that so many females now are in data analyst role strategist [mary]: role i [katia_sausys]: it's [mary]: think [katia_sausys]: true [mary]: says it all [katia_sausys]: it's true and [mary]: and also for today i mean my goodness if i was starting today with everything [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: that's available to us i mean wow [anna]: m [mary]: what a plethora of information we have at our fingertips is when i was starting [mary]: and i'm going to sound really [anna]: it [mary]: old now but you know when you're trying to you're literally sitting with a calculator [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: working out things from from pieces of paper it's very [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: very different the the volume of information that you were able to get the type [mary]: of information was extremely limited and what you were then able to do with it [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: was extremely limited i mean when i think about my early days in direct marketing [mary]: it was direct mail that was it that was so it was all about how [mary]: do you personalized the rectmaland it was like dear mary cars [katia_sausys]: hm [mary]: of you are one of so it was very stilted and so the beauty now [mary]: is that you [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: can incorporate the intelligence of the data in a much more empathetic and relevant way [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: in how you communicate that to your consumer [katia_sausys]: yes [mary]: as well [katia_sausys]: thank you and you've been in started ups you've been in agencies you've been on [katia_sausys]: the clients side so to say long career but within kind of [mary]: yeah [katia_sausys]: data marketing strategy and elyticream [mary]: oh [katia_sausys]: of things what is one topic or a few topics that people always come to [katia_sausys]: you uh looking for advice [mary]: yeah [katia_sausys]: on or looking for you know questions [mary]: yeah [katia_sausys]: to be answered [mary]: i a lot of the time it really is mary how can we substantiate the [mary]: marketing in we've made how do we explain how our campaign has worked to stake [mary]: holders [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: in the business and particarly in the business to business [katia_sausys]: h [mary]: environment to sales teams [katia_sausys]: h [mary]: who do necessarily [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: believe that marketing they believe marketing [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: is being a cost [katia_sausys]: ah [mary]: center not part of the revenue generation and growth engine that is the most often [mary]: asked [katia_sausys]: that's right [mary]: question of me and that's what i spend most [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: of my [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: waking hours trying to help articulate and work with our data science [katia_sausys]: h [mary]: teams [katia_sausys]: m [mary]: to help build models that credible and trustworthy across the organization so when we do [mary]: say yes you know marketing has contributed this amount of revenue to the business were [mary]: not large [katia_sausys]: that's right [mary]: out of court [katia_sausys]: that's why i didn't even and one of your more recent roles you're responsible for [katia_sausys]: architecting the measurement frame were the attribution philosophy of account base marketing so you can [katia_sausys]: prove its value [mary]: hm [katia_sausys]: and this is like you said one of the more most important questions does my [katia_sausys]: marketing efforts work work [mary]: yes [katia_sausys]: they work [mary]: and i think and i think a lot of it comes back down to what [mary]: we were just talking about is having honest and transparent conversations [katia_sausys]: yah [mary]: along the way i think the danger is people get frightened about what the data [mary]: seems to be showing them and they try and gloss over if it's not looking [mary]: as good i [katia_sausys]: h [mary]: don't [katia_sausys]: m [mary]: think i always say you know progress not perfection [katia_sausys]: hm [mary]: so we [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: can continue to improve we learn we don't necessarily fail and i think that's part [mary]: of the culture that have been very fortunate you know most recently [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: with h p to be in is it's about [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: a culture of learning that it's not about [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: you succeed or you fail [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: and if you fail there are no bad implications it's about we tried it we [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: learned a lot [katia_sausys]: m [mary]: just don't repeat the stuff [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: that doesn't work very well and double down [katia_sausys]: ah [mary]: on [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: what is working and find [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: additional ways of amplifying and and [katia_sausys]: hm [mary]: broad ning [katia_sausys]: hm [mary]: that success but that's tough conversation [katia_sausys]: it is [mary]: to have when you're sitting in front of you know the [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: e l t you know the executive level branch of the organization [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: who are wanting to pick holes in [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: everything you do because some of them want to cut the marketing budget [katia_sausys]: yeah what are the most challenging aspects of what makes answering this question difficult to [katia_sausys]: do my marketing efforts work [mary]: i because despite [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: all of the data that we have there isn't any one you know way of [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: pulling this together and you might have a lot of data but have you got [mary]: the right data [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: have you got it constructed in the white right way to answer the questions you [mary]: need to answer and i think that's where the interesting thing comes in because [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: there's always gaps in the data you know teas never perfect [katia_sausys]: yeah yeah [mary]: and understanding what those gaps are and how they affect [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: your ability [katia_sausys]: yah [mary]: to substantiate what you're doing and explain what you're doing [katia_sausys]: ah [mary]: is [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: actollutely critical and then you can talk about okay how do we address and plug [mary]: those gaps [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: collaboratively [katia_sausys]: well [mary]: so it's not seen as a zemanas situation that that's the [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: way i always try and and look things is we're all [katia_sausys]: ah [mary]: ultimately everyone's here for the same reason [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: we want the business to be successful we want our [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: clients to be successful we want them to be profitable and growing [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: nobody's going and they're going i want to sabotage their business but sometimes you know [mary]: when you're in some of those meetings sometimes as a marketer you can feel as [mary]: though you know that's the opinion [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: is being given so [katia_sausys]: yah [mary]: start from from your early conversations with with explaining you know we don't know everything [katia_sausys]: ah yeah [mary]: we believe we've got some good guidance and you know we've built statistical models that [mary]: seem [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: to be proving out you know [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: helping us [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: to determine what is good and what is bad but there isn't [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: a clear right answer and i think that's the challenge because we all think because [mary]: we've got so much data we must be able to go that's right [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: double down on that [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: not necessarily [katia_sausys]: in my experience [mary]: the case [katia_sausys]: even setting the business objectives is very important and that's sometimes challenging because [mary]: yeah [katia_sausys]: we're not answering to the to the same question what are you trying to prove [mary]: yeah [katia_sausys]: right [mary]: and it's also i think it's even there's a layer back there as well what [mary]: is the role that marketing can play and i should be expected to play in [mary]: within those business objectives and i think that is also a really tough nut to [mary]: crack and articulate particularly [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: in you know we've seen it in the last few years everything changes so dramatically [mary]: all [katia_sausys]: a [mary]: the time you know you can never be clear i don't [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: have the crystal ball now to forecast [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: definitively of what's going to happen so we've got to be willing to be flexible [mary]: and to [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: to to be able to be agile enough [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: to move you know with the market [katia_sausys]: yeh [mary]: conditions which is where data can also [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: help us but again it's not going to be a crystibale [katia_sausys]: that's right if you if it wasn't for data and marketing strategy what would [mary]: okay [katia_sausys]: you do [mary]: oh what i'd love to do was what i was doing yesterday [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: evening i'm a [katia_sausys]: that's [mary]: big [katia_sausys]: right [mary]: tennis player passionate tennis player and i still play and last night i had to [mary]: pleasure of playing with a guy named julian cash check [katia_sausys]: to [mary]: his name he's one hundred and third in the world at the moment in the [mary]: men's t p ranking his britt and he was visiting our club and so i [mary]: actually got a lesson from him along [katia_sausys]: ye [mary]: with two of my other girl friends and so if i could do anything i [mary]: would be involved in tennis in some way shape form would not be good [katia_sausys]: ah [mary]: enough to go on to that's for sure but maybe you know be part of [mary]: the membership committee of a club or even be the pro [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: or something like that but yet [katia_sausys]: con [mary]: love [katia_sausys]: grat [mary]: the [katia_sausys]: on that [mary]: well [katia_sausys]: well [mary]: oh [katia_sausys]: talking about that what is [mary]: yeah [katia_sausys]: one company pork that you would love to have oh [mary]: gosh that's one company but well actually [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: you know what i think [anna]: yeah [mary]: thanks to [anna]: oh [mary]: the pandemic [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: i have that book in that i have thee [anna]: oh [mary]: ility now [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: to [anna]: oh [mary]: work from home pretty much all the time and i have to say i have [mary]: to give a big shout out to h p they've been very good [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: about managing [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: the situation with covidandyou [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: know the mental stress that that's [katia_sausys]: h [mary]: put on people and the flexibility to be able to work from home and also [mary]: help us to set up our home offices so [anna]: oh [mary]: we are able to work productively and professionally within a home environment [katia_sausys]: o god [mary]: so [anna]: wow [mary]: now i'm [katia_sausys]: i'm [mary]: very happy [katia_sausys]: very happy to find you that way [anna]: awesome well mary thank you so much for taking the time out of your day [anna]: to talk with us i think you've offered some really great insights on people that [anna]: are looking to get into this space especially women might be looking to get into [anna]: the space and it's just really [katia_sausys]: m [anna]: interesting to hear a kind of the transformation that's taken place [katia_sausys]: yeah oh [anna]: within the data world and marketing you know throughout [katia_sausys]: oh [anna]: your career and [katia_sausys]: yeah [anna]: it's just very sing to hear all of that so thank you again so much [anna]: for [katia_sausys]: yeah [anna]: taking [katia_sausys]: oh [anna]: the time to share that with us and with our audience today [katia_sausys]: yeah [anna]: is there any final thoughts or words that you would like to leave with our [anna]: listeners [katia_sausys]: eh ah [mary]: sure [katia_sausys]: oh [mary]: firstly thank you for inviting [anna]: solutely [mary]: me really enjoyed our conversation this morning and [anna]: yes [mary]: i will just reiterate what i said i think early on is don't be intimidated [mary]: by [anna]: a [mary]: ta see data [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: as a facilitator [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: and [katia_sausys]: yeah [mary]: again build stories with your data that's the way you'll get through to who you [mary]: need to get through to whether that's your [anna]: ah [mary]: consumer whether it's a stakeholder whether it's a challenger of marketings value [katia_sausys]: ah [mary]: it's there to help you not to hinder you [katia_sausys]: wonderful thank you so much [anna]: thank you so much [mary]: no thank you